What role do men play in feminism? How to involve men in childcare? Are men really facing an identity crisis? Who are the radicalized young men? And what can we do about them? These are some of the major questions I asked prominent Czech sociologist Iva Šmídová, who has been studying men and masculinities since the 1990s.
Most feminists that I’ve interviewed agree that men should join the fight for women’s rights. But most men are afraid of feminism. They see it as something that takes away their privileges. Can feminism be presented as a win-win for both?
Gender equality can definitely be presented as a win-win situation for both men and women. Care and time spent with children is a big issue at stake. Many fathers miss more family time and so many debates and work-life-balance issues take care as a meeting point.
At the same time, it is understandable that people in advantageous positions are afraid of losing some of their privileges. But we should show them that such privileges are simply not fair and that women and other marginalized groups that are affected deserve better.
How can we motivate more men to speak up for women?
This is an ongoing, pretty complex process that should happen on more fronts, such as in the family, the educational system, media, and politics, for starters. There are organizations, such as Equimundo or LOM in the Czech Republic, who work with men who want to be more caring and less violent. These are exactly the type of initiatives that we should be supporting. I believe that a big proportion of men are already sensitive and responsive to gender equality.
Do you know any men who have done a lot in terms of gender equality?
Since I do research on masculinities and men, I have come across many men who have done a lot in terms of gender equality. I am connected to these people internationally, but I do not necessarily think that gender of the people involved is as important. There is this common goal and that is to be caring about relations and community. Since we live in a society where men have more authority in the public sphere, it makes sense to have more men in the feminist movement.
Should we work with men who feel threatened by feminism?
All people deserve care, respect and having the possibility to live in a caring and safe environment. Historically, though, it’s been women who have been much more endangered. So I would say yes, let’s work with men who fear feminism but let’s have less mercy with those who abuse their privileges, who bully and use violent practices. We can find many programs for men to manage and transform their aggression and many instances of care come from feminist and pro-feminist environments.
How do you personally react to people who attack feminist views?
For me, I learned that it is more important to change the structure and rules of the game than keep persuading a few individual men in a pub over a beer that feminism makes sense. I keep doing that occasionally, yet besides that, I serve in the Government Council for Gender Equality and teach gender studies at Masaryk University. Discussing feminism in places where I am not welcome and getting into petty disputes drains too much energy. When people’s minds are nonreflective and their only goal is to argue, I back out of the discussion. I call it self-care.
I’m currently reading a book called “Engaged Fatherhood For Men, Families and Gender Equality”. The premise of the book is that when fathers are involved in childcare, it benefits everyone. Men build strong ties with their children, children have male role models and women can pursue their career. What do you think?
Involving fathers in care is crucial. We must not talk about care as something feminine. Men also can and do care. A good boss in the end is not someone who has the best economic results but someone who takes good care of his employees and who sees them as people.
The problem beyond the Czech context is that men earn more, and still are often expected to do so. This pattern reproduces inequalities and funnels us into conventional gender roles, which happens gradually and it’s difficult to get out of those stereotypes later in life. So many things would have to change.
What would need to happen in Czechia to get men more involved?
There is certainly not just one way. The change needs to come both from the bottom and from the top. Sometimes you just need to have the courage and step out of your comfort zone. I remember that when our twins were small, my husband asked his employer to give him more time to harmonize family and work life. And surprisingly for quite a few people, the employer said, “Well yes, sure, why not.” But sometimes this first step does not happen. So, it’s very important, if you have an agenda, to stand for it and ask about it. And maybe quite surprisingly, the environment is ripe to really change. So, take the courage and then talk about examples such as engaged fatherhood.
Plus, it’s important to see the structure behind the individual lives and choices. Families with small children work hard to reach their individual solutions to a structural issue. Where to live, how to commute, how to combine family and working life in a country where the statistically rational choice is to keep men as breadwinners, since they have historically earned more money, and they also enter family life a bit older and thus with more employment experience. It is important not to leave the partners alone to solve these issues, but share, cooperate, and demand, build networks, and make the voice stronger. Being heard and being given attention can help break some of the stereotypes that are present in politics and elsewhere.
The most progressive countries in terms of shared childcare are the Nordics. How can we be more like them?
The Scandinavian countries have a strong individual and institutional support on the policy level, emphasis on the community and mutual trust. Gender balance and gender equality are taken as very important qualities and values. And yet even these countries haven’t reached equality because structural inequalities and stereotypical beliefs remain. For example, regarding what we expect from men and what we expect from women in that traits such as rationality or emotionality are still understood as belonging more to either men or to women.
Are Czech men demanding change in terms of parenthood?
I think it is pretty clear from survey results, media coverage, and public polls that men want to spend more time at home with their families or with their children. But structural and individual barriers prevent them from doing so. Men and women are not homogeneous groups and there never is a single model of family arrangements. We should focus on the bigger picture, which shows diversity and the network of structural barriers as well as good practices elsewhere. We can set up social policies and institutions, adjust the labor market, value the diversity in political debate, and present more colorful life trajectories in the media and popular culture.
What’s the situation like abroad?
In Europe, we can see diverse practices of men’s stronger involvement in care. Some demand part-time jobs and want time for family or self-care. Others, less privileged, have less choice but still care about supporting their family beyond the conventional breadwinner model. The social atmosphere and political will to provide institutional support are crucial.
We often hear about radicalized young men who blame women for their unhappiness. But has anything really changed compared to the previous backlashes to feminism?
The principle of blaming women for men’s failures is evergreen. It is easier to blame someone else than to take your own responsibility. What is new is how blame is reinforced within online communities, where people think that everyone thinks this way. And also the speed with which radical playbooks get shared and followed.
The problem gets amplified by online algorithms as some self-appointed leaders get robust attention even on a political level (e.g., Elon Musk or the Czech political party Motoristé) and their ideas are mainstreamed.
What age group is most susceptible to misogynistic content?
My concern is with the most vulnerable, which are typically the youngest – not having yet the capacity to build safeguarding mechanisms and maturity, and then those – maybe older age – groups not skilled in online environment or those men, and these really are more often men, who are addicted to the online world and spend too much time in virtual environments. Sometimes these compensate for lost or broken social relations for them.
Why do so many men favor these ideas?
It is simply comfortable for some men to stick to the idea that they are natural masters of the universe and that others are dependent on them. This is how nature intended it, isn’t it? Thinking and reflexivity is hard work and it takes time and courage.
Are men facing an identity crisis?
Honestly, I get goosebumps when I hear this. Generally, men, as a category or group, have had one crisis after another since at least the sixteenth century as historians have documented. When men have a crisis, more attention is paid to it in the public space, whereas when women collapse under the weight of multiple burdens in the private or public spheres, there is disproportionately less debate.
Again, the picture is not black and white and this is not a competition. So, yes, I agree that it is not easy to take on responsibility and live up to the expectations which bring about also identity crises. These are, however, not limited to one gender.
According to many research studies on the double burden for women*, involved men start to see and experience that it actually is really hard to cope with it all. They are not alone in the world who are not doing well. And definitely, some marginalized men as well as other groups feel the pressure more intensely and we should not overlook these.
* Slow motion (L. Segal) for men, Second Shift (Hochschild) in changing men or Hard labour (Gatrel) in family life
The American writer Scott Galloway claims that young boys lack male role models and opportunities to meet. According to him, the most dangerous thing for society is a young man who has no economic and romantic prospects.
I understand that it is sad when young people lose faith in society, but I don’t fully agree with him. Yes, these young men are the victims. The real culprits, though, are powerful successful people – all men so far, who have incredible resources and use them for personal profit. Globalized corporate conservative masculinity is much more dangerous than those desperate men who tend to commit suicide more often, are prone to addictions and interpersonal violence. Our state institutions, globally, did not take into account transnational players and are failing to combat them.
Why aren’t men dealing with the radicalization of young boys, but feminists are?
We are talking about vulnerable children here and those who care for them. Given that women usually take care of children, you get the answer. There are organizations, such as Equimundo internationally, or LOM and the initiative Genderman, and others in the Czech context that address the issue, too. But more action is needed, definitely.
Social anthropologist Marie Heřmanová wrote: “It’s hard for me to feel sorry for men and boys when, after thousands of years of patriarchy, attention is finally being paid to someone other than them.” How do you feel about this?
That’s a refreshing view. I automatically assumed that radicalization of young boys was a new feminist topic. But we should change the rhetoric and say “Men, take care of boys. Show that you care.”
To abolish harmful social norms, we have to replace them with new ones. What can we replace toxic masculinity with?
I suggest to provide more room for diversity – give recognition to already existing practices that are not harmful. Besides that, community, mutuality, solidarity and help can be promoted through care: professional as well as family or community care. And we always need some time to rethink and reflect the seemingly obvious, such as not take care uncritically, as a simple and always positive value, because care can also be abused for manipulation.
Iva Šmídová is a sociologist, an Associate Professor at the Department of Sociology, Faculty of Social Studies, Masaryk University, Brno, Czech Republic. She has worked in the field of gender studies since the early 1990s in both research and teaching. Her long-term research interests include critical studies on men and masculinities, gender relations in the family, sociology of health, illness and medicine, and bereavement studies. Her previous studies included topics such as men on parental leave, men at childbirth, professional men in positions of power, or masculinities offside